Macintosh users post your questions or comments here.

[Losman]

Hello fellow TXU members..

Seeing how Mac's are getting more popular now a days, I decided to open this general discussion thread for fellow Macintosh users..

By doing this, I'm hoping Mac users will post there questions or comments here in this thread as opposed to going off topic in other threads..:)

So Mac users, feel free to post any questions, news, or comments here.

Losman
(Mac user)

Macpro, 2 x 2.66 GHz Dual-core Intel Xeon processors, 4 GB 667MHz DDR2, ATY Radeon X1900 512MB, 23" Apple Cinema HD Display 1920 X 1200 resolution, JBL Creature II speakers..

[Anon loyalist]

Whats a Mac?

[KaZuma]

apple machintosh Anon.

iMac? ring any bells?

In either case, I dont think the Mac X3 version was meant to handle large mods like XTM, which is probably why you're getting out-of-memory errors.

[Anon loyalist]

Out of memory Errors?? is that dirrected at me? :shock:

[Sirus5]

It's something you wear when it rains.... :rolleyes:


Actually, there are several variants of computers with different processors, operating systems and hardware...

The main userbase is the standard PC which has an INTEL or similar processor - this processor simply processes numbers as instructions and we as humans wrote a language called Assembler which makes that more easy for us to understand...

The other side of things was the Apple Macintosh - uses a slightly different assembler and was more used by graphical design artists. -

Generally called a MAC.

[Anon loyalist]

You made that pun which i so expected to come from the like of you! :kapow:
Cool info thanks for the update, i'm a bit like a lost child in some of these forums and i just try my best to understand them. ;)

[Sirus5]

That's no probs,
There are a few of us computer types around....
Just call on us if you need us and we will try to help

[Draxis]

I'm upgrading to a macbook pro in may, so what would be better? to run x3 with bootcamp or parallels or just a mac version? but i want to use xtm...

[Losman]

I'm upgrading to a macbook pro in may, so what would be better? to run x3 with bootcamp or parallels or just a mac version? but i want to use xtm...

Short answer: Bootcamp is your best option.. and If you update to OS X Leopard, Bootcamp comes with it...;)

Losman

[Draxis]

nice, i'm getting a new 15 inch one and i think it'll come with leopard, so i'll be fine. Finally, mobile XTM!

[tyvol]

Short answer: Bootcamp is your best option.. and If you update to OS X Leopard, Bootcamp comes with it...;)
Losman

In my personal experience with a loaded Intel Mac Pro, this is very good advice!

The virtual machine offerings on the Intel Mac's (such as Parallels, etc.) are OK for Microsoft Office and such, but way too slow for most CPU/GPU intensive games.

Because it uses the Intel Mac in almost completely "native PC mode," Boot Camp is the way to go, however, but I would recommend that you not be tempted by Vista.

Only the 32-bit version of Vista is supported by Apple's Boot Camp and I've consumed innumerable hours installing/deinstalling Vista Ultimate in 32-bit and 64-bit versions.

As it isn't supported by Apple, the real experience with the 64-bit version is that it is shaky in Boot Camp and the search for proper drivers is not always rewarded. Some on other forums claim they are running X3 on 64-bit Vista, but they don't paint a pretty picture at all.

As for the 32-bit version of Vista, it works, after a fashion, but for the X3 experience using it, this is summarized by the word "inconsistent."

Correct me if I'm wrong on this Losman, but for consistency, performance and reliability, a fresh Windows XP Professional install in a separate Boot Camp partition (on a 7200 rpm drive), is the way to go for X3 players.

After all XP updates from Microsoft are made (3 or 4 passes, I forget which), and this process includes automatically installing the correct GPU driver, you have the highest performing and most stable platform available for running X3 (in PC native mode) on the Intel Mac of your choice, IMHO.

And, with most of the Intel Mac's out there (such as the Mac Book Pro (MBP)) there is more than enough horsepower to run X3 and XTM (no brag, but the PC performance indices shown for Boot Camp are very high indeed).

Lastly, and if your budget can stand it, more RAM is way better (even more than 4 GB)...

hth...

Cheers!

[Losman]

In my personal experience with a loaded Intel Mac Pro, this is very good advice!

Correct me if I'm wrong on this Losman, but for consistency, performance and reliability, a fresh Windows XP Professional install in a separate Boot Camp partition (on a 7200 rpm drive), is the way to go for X3 players.


Lastly, and if your budget can stand it, more RAM is way better (even more than 4 GB)...

hth...

Cheers!

No corrections here, Thats sound advice..O0

I have no performance issues at all and thats with every thing Maxed out and Seta x 10...:grin:

Have fun
Losman

[tyvol]

I enjoyed X3 vanilla (Mac OSX version) on my Intel Mac Pro so much (with many mods) that when I heard about XTM I couldn't wait to try it.

Using every install trick I ever heard about, alas and as of this moment, XTM will absolutely not run on a Mac, however "loaded-out" it is.

An "Out of Memory" crash always occurs whenever or however you try to launch the galaxy map (not the sector map). Everything else seems to run fine...

The Trouble Ticket I sent to VPLTD.com (the vendor of the native Mac version) came back with: (1) VPLTD doesn't support XTM but (1) Transgaming (maker of Cider - the Mac interpreter for PC games that X3 needs to run on the Mac) does.

So, I wrote to the Transgaming/Cider team with copious diagnostics attached. The response so far has been nada, zip, etc...

On a previous thread, Losman told me about his Intel Mac Pro configuration and that he was running X3/XTM in Windows (using Boot Camp) with no problem!8)

Following his lead (and a careful install process), I'm now running XTM on a similar XP Boot Camp set-up (as described above) for the last two days, and I just want anyone who is interested to know that XTM is a FANTASTIC IMPROVEMENT (!) over the original game and well worth everything it took to get it running!:shock:

Not only that, but every Mod or Script that I've added (25 is my current count) works as claimed and without conflict with each other!

To put it another way, XTM is an impressive accomplishment by any measure (by a lot of tireless talented folks). After experiencing it, it actually made me want to know who to thank!

In short, I've found that XTM is a wonderful upgrade to a great game (!) and if we Intel Mac folks can't run it natively (for a while...yes? I still have my hopes), IMHO it is certainly worth the somewhat painstaking process to get it running using the Boot Camp alternative!

Anyway, FYI...

Cheers!

PS... I'll be happy to post a list of the Mods/Scripts that I've found are "XTM compatible," if that's of any interest.

[Draxis]

sounds good! I'm gonna buy the parts separately and assemble it myself, just ram etc. I am wondering, how much of a difference does 7200 rpm vs 5400 rpm make on the hard drive? enough to sacrifice 50 gigs? also is there a place to by a 250 gig that spins at 7200?

[kevso101]

Hi Draxis,
hmmm the difference between hard disk speeds are a matter of milliseconds in terms access time and often the spin speed of the disk matters very little and generally it's unlikely you would percieve a difference unless the drives are nearly full. The better option is to look for the drive with the most cache memory onboard as this will increase access times, 8Mb is a good bet. It is also worth noting that if you intend to stick a high spin speed disk in a laptop it will get hotter.

Have fun

Kevso :)

[tyvol]

@ Draxis
You may wish to Google OWC and Crucial to get the latest info to add to your knowledge on RAM options for your Mac Book Pro. Crucial's website is informative. Error correction RAM (called ECC) is a tad slower and more reliable (than Non ECC) but a little more expensive. ECC may not be available outside of Apple for the Mac Book Pro, though. I use ECC RAM but I've never ever heard of anyone's Non ECC RAM failing.

As for higher hard disk speed, good cache memory size (to decrease access times) and some additional heat, I believe Kevso is correct. You may not perceive much of a difference in a higher spin disk speed. I went for a high speed hard disk for Boot Camp (a 10k rpm Raptor) only because I know that hard disks can be sometimes be burdened with systems with lots of overhead - and Vista is out there - for the Intel Mac Boot Camp crowd (that includes me, lately). The Raptor (by Western Digital) works fine for Boot Camp and if/when you get to Vista on Boot Camp, you will notice that Vista's performance tests for games has numbers for each aspect of your equipment: processor speed, RAM, hard disk, GPU, etc. To give you a small reference, to run properly, Halo 2 needs a minimum of an overall performance rating of 3.0 with a desired performance rating of 4.0). Vista's rating of my Mac Pro set-up is 5.8, with all components of the system running at 5.9 except for my X1900 GPU which came in at 5.8! Anyway, and as explained elsewhere, this seems to be adequate for X3 XTM running on XP, as far as I can tell (so far anyway).

And, OWC is a good place to start looking for hard disk options.

Cheers!

[Losman]

On a previous thread, Losman told me about his Intel Mac Pro configuration and that he was running X3/XTM in Windows (using Boot Camp) with no problem!8)

Following his lead (and a careful install process), I'm now running XTM on a similar XP Boot Camp set-up (as described above) for the last two days, and I just want anyone who is interested to know that XTM is a FANTASTIC IMPROVEMENT (!) over the original game and well worth everything it took to get it running!:shock:

To put it another way, XTM is an impressive accomplishment by any measure (by a lot of tireless talented folks). After experiencing it, it actually made me want to know who to thank!

In short, I've found that XTM is a wonderful upgrade to a great game (!) and if we Intel Mac folks can't run it natively (for a while...yes? I still have my hopes), IMHO it is certainly worth the somewhat painstaking process to get it running using the Boot Camp alternative!


Glad to here, your finally enjoying :xtmflag:.. Yes its definitely worth any painstaking process to get XTM to run on your machine..:lol:




@ Draxis
You may wish to Google OWC and Crucial to get the latest info to add to your knowledge on RAM options for your Mac Book Pro. Crucial's website is informative.
And, OWC is a good place to start looking for hard disk options.

Cheers!

Thanks for that tip..8) Sounds like you know your way around a computer tyvol..i will have to keep that in mind...;)


I order all my Mac stuff from ClubMac/Macmall for 2 reasons:

1) Wife gets a discount with them..:p (through her work)

2) If you live in the US and don't reside in California (where they are located) you don't have to :paranoid: pay taxes on your purchase(s) at least we don't here in Ohio..:grin:

Have fun
Losman

@ Kevso, Sounds like we have found another Techie...:lol:

[kevso101]

Hi Losman,
Never hurts to have a few Techies about the place, welcome tyvol, perhaps we should petition Mokonzi for a Techie Team badge, hahahaha :lol::grin::p

Kevso :)

[tyvol]

@ Losman/kevso101

Most grateful to be here and learn from helpful teachers like yourselves...
Ok, you found me out, I'm a Techie wannabe, but I don't deserve a badge...
I'd wear one, of course (everywhere:mrgreen:), but I feel I must learn how to do "geek translations" a whole lot better... [Frankly, this is not so easy for me...]
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, is there any place where I can get a map of the current state of the XTM sectors?
See? I'm still just learning about all this...
Cheers!

[Losman]

Hi tyvol

The Techies is something I started with Roger LS Griffiths and Kevso101, started off as a joke, but they know their stuff, so I still referr to them as TXU's Techies..(no badges at the moment):lol:

I wanted to thank you for your very nice write up (well thought out) about reinstalling..8)

Now about the map...You should try this..Scorp's map link here (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=166320)..;)

Its a very useful tool..If you have any questions about it, either PM me or post here..It should be exactly what your looking for..

Have fun
Losman

[kevso101]

Hi Losman,
thanks for the kind words always happy to help on any little techy issue :grin:

Got a mate who selling a Mac Pro, got 8 cores and 4GB RAM etc, so i might add it to my ever growing collection of computers, it's even got Leopard on it which i think comes with Bootcamp.... hmmm my "Techy" sense is tingling!!:lol::lol:

Cya

Kevso :)

[Draxis]

thanks for all your help! now i just hope they get a better video card in macbook pros by default before i buy one... and whoever suggested OWC, 4gb of ram for $100!

[Losman]

Hi Losman,
thanks for the kind words always happy to help on any little techy issue :grin:

Got a mate who selling a Mac Pro, got 8 cores and 4GB RAM etc, so i might add it to my ever growing collection of computers, it's even got Leopard on it which i think comes with Bootcamp.... hmmm my "Techy" sense is tingling!!:lol::lol:

Cya

Kevso :)

That sounds like the new quad-core processors..:shock:, which is the new Intel Xeon proc. for Mac's, Just keep in mind X3 will only use 1 core and 1 processor to actually play the game...:cry:, If you have never owned a Mac before, I suggest you get it, most likely it will become your favorite computer..Azn

Yup with Leopard OS X, bootcamp is included, so Install X3 and XTM (there's a good guide Here (http://www.thexuniverse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2720).) :lol:>:D:lol: sorry had to do it...

Anyway, you will love it...As far as your Techie sense tingling :grin:, It will be tingling even more if he's selling it for a good price and you pass on it..(Kevso tells Losman he passed on it, even though it was a steal, :shock: Kevso's head starts tingling and hurting after Losman hits him with long BLUNT object..) :kapow: :mrgreen: :lol:

See ya..
Let us know if you get it...
Losman

[kevso101]

Hey Losman,
'fraid it won't be until the new year his new toy won't be here 'til then :( and he better sell it to me for a good price or i'll have to skin him and sell his hide to a Teladi :lol:

Cya

Kevso :)

[tyvol]

@ Losman
Scorps Map is great! I know have a two page printed copy of the XTM universe!
When I launch the search option in-game, it happens, but I don't get the confirmation mentioned. Something perhaps to with subtitles, but I don't know how to turn these on or off. Outstanding map tool, however. Many thanks for this tip!
@ Kevso
It's my guess that you will very much enjoy the Mac Pro unit you are considering, if you decide to purchase it. The Leopard world alone is worth a small detour. And, save all your PC software and games. Boot Camp is solid at this point on my Mac Pro set-up. Look into the GPU issue if you can. The X1900 with the latest firmware update/driver is all I need. But you can move up even further from there, depending upon checkbook, of course.
@ Draxis
Hang in there. In the past (no guarantee of anything, really), Apple tends to announce new product in the February-March timeframe. Shipping sometimes comes later. Worth looking out for, IMHO.

Cheers!

[Losman]

Hiya gang :)

I have a question about Vista ultimate with the use of it with Bootcamp (Mac OSX Leopard).

I have heard (rumor mills) about the 64 bit "ultimate" being buggy and wanted some feedback from others that have it or have had positive results..

I need to update my windows XP 32 bit and really want vista so I can get DirectX 10, but if its still buggy I might just get XP 64 bit so I can use more than 2 GB of My (now) 6 GB ram. :grin:

Also, If I do decide to go with Vista, I will have to upgrade my Video card. Currently have the ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512 MB and its been very good but its not DirectX 10 compatible, so I would like to hear some suggestions on a comparable or better video card *for my Macpro*, Nvidia or ATI I'm not bias, whatever will work the best!!:p

I just upgraded my RAM from 4 GB to 6 GB, Installed a new Western Digital "Raptor" 150 GB @ 10,000 RPM partitioned for PC for bootcamp and Upgraded to Mac OSX Leopard. After playing CRYSIS and only being able to run on it medium settings, I thought its time to do some upgrading!!

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated gang..:)

Thanks

Losman

[Aragon Speed]

Thread stickied. ;)

[tyvol]

Hello Losman!

As a proud fellow Mac Pro owner (2 x 3GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon) running the Xtended Mod in Boot Camp, here are my small learnings...

1) In my experience for the last 5 months running Vista Ultimate 32 bit in Boot Camp, I've had no problems running the Xtended Mod (or anything else, really).
2) I suggest that you make all the Microsoft updates to Vista as soon as you can in the install process, though (which I'm sure you do).
3) I did try to install Vista Ultimate 64 bit under Tiger and it was flaky (it would not consistently start up and was a real pain), but that was under Tiger, back when Boot Camp was still in Beta form (under Leopard, Boot Camp is fully supported - but not for Vista 64 bit from my readings). I've decided that I'm going to stay with Vista's 32 bit version indefinitely, only because I know it works.
4) As for DirectX 10 and a GPU beyond the ATI Radeon X1900 XT w/512 MB (I have the same one), I looked a little, but I could only find some that use the PCI Express 2 slots (our machines can only take PCI Express cards). There may be one out there, though, but we'll need to make sure it's "flashed" for the Mac world and not the PC world. And... there is the issue of AppleCare if you have it. A new GPU might just void AppleCare, but I'm not sure about this.
5) The "raptor" will help under Vista, IMHO. Just look at the performance experience numbers when you get up and running on Vista - the slowest component is the GPU. My overall number is 5.8. Much faster than my friends fastest PC's.
6) Crysis ran fine with most settings at their ultimate (I think they all were...) and the detail in that game was stunning.
Anyway, I hope this helps!
Keep us posted on what you find!8)
Cheers
tyvol

[Losman]

Thanks Tyvol for the wonderful advise!!!

Yeah, I think I will go 32 bit Vista unless I hear of progress with the ultimate in the meantime..(probably wait til september anyways)..

With my current upgrades my machine is running great!!:grin:
While playing WoW framerates rarley drop under 120!!!

Question? what is your Ram limitations with vista 32 bit...

Heard Nvidia was coming out with a Mac version of the 8800 GtX 768 MB GPU!!! if so thats a really good card... ATI is also talking about making a crossfire unit that will work with Macpro, Trying to keep up with news on that, that would be sweet!!:grin:

Thanks again Tyvol for the response..

EDIT: off topic, Just got my friend (finaced for him) a dell XPS 680 sytem for $1500.00 US dollars with these specs:
2.4 ghz quad-core
Windows XP Pro 64 bit
3 GB ram DDR2 @ 667 mHz
500 GB 7200 RPM HD
Nvidia Geforce 8800 GT 512 MB
16 X DVD +/-RW
19 inch widescreeen flat panel

And this thing is highly upgradeable, extra slots for everything. Kinda pisses me off, he gets such a decent system for the money...lol Tyvol knows how much we paid for our systems..:shock::lol:

Have fun

Losman

[Draxis]

how the hell did he get that? Thats not right... for 1500.00? Is that how much it cost him for the gun and ski mask? Thats the only way i see it working.


On that aside i have a alienware area 51 mobile desktop and want to get a mac soon, and that Nvidia card looks sick...

[Losman]

how the hell did he get that? Thats not right... for 1500.00? Is that how much it cost him for the gun and ski mask? Thats the only way i see it working.


:lol:

Actually just go to dell.com and u could get one too!!! lol
PC's are much cheaper in price than Mac's, but keep in mind You get what u pay for?? :lol:

Later

Losman

[Draxis]

lol, good point. I can't count the amount of time i've spent trying to get my old dell's working. I was looking into that blackbird system from HP, but i need a laptop...

[tyvol]

Losman/Draxis,
I agree, that Nvidia 8800 GtX 768 MB GPU looks great. Good Tip!
If this one surfaces and it's PCI Express and Mac, I'm in!
Please keep us posted on that topic, if you can...
As for RAM limitations for Vista 32 bit, I'm not sure.
My Mac Pro has 8 GB and I've experienced no problems with Vista 32 bit, so far anyway.
Impressive price for the Dell 680 configuration! Amazing...
Only thing, for the additional $ that I've (we've) paid for a Mac Pro, I can easily do things with Video and Audio on it that, as far as I've been able to determine anyway, just cannot be done on any Dell without mucho more gigabucks.
I will also aid in the hunt for a PCI Express GPU to kick things up a notch!
Cheers!
tyvol

[Losman]

Losman/Draxis,
I agree, that Nvidia 8800 GtX 768 MB GPU looks great. Good Tip!
If this one surfaces and it's PCI Express and Mac, I'm in!
Please keep us posted on that topic, if you can...
As for RAM limitations for Vista 32 bit, I'm not sure.
My Mac Pro has 8 GB and I've experienced no problems with Vista 32 bit, so far anyway.
Impressive price for the Dell 680 configuration! Amazing...
Only thing, for the additional $ that I've (we've) paid for a Mac Pro, I can easily do things with Video and Audio on it that, as far as I've been able to determine anyway, just cannot be done on any Dell without mucho more gigabucks.
I will also aid in the hunt for a PCI Express GPU to kick things up a notch!
Cheers!
tyvol

Thanks Tyvol, an extra set eyes looking for info on a new buttkicking GPU would be appreciated, Don't forget about the new crossfire unit ATI is trying to make for the Intel-based Macpro's as well..Sounded like they were trying to make it wipe the floors with the Nvidia GTX card..:grin:

I agree "our" money was well spent, I love my Mac and probably will never buy anything but Macs..

Yes that Dell was pretty impressive.. Out of curiosity, I had to open it up and Its got like 3 cooling fans and is a well built machine all around (as far as being upgradeable).. I looked at a Alienware machine for him that was comparable in specs but cost about $600 more and thats without a Monitor...:shock:

Have fun

Losman

[tyvol]

Hello Losman,
You probably already know that existing Mac Pros come in two vintages. The 1st generation vintage (2007) comes with a 1.33 MHz bus and PCI Express 1.0 slots. The 2nd generation [2008] comes with a 1.6 MHz bus and is PCI Express 2.0 compatible.
Mine is a 1st generation Mac Pro, so I have to upgrade my GPU very carefully.
After some digging, I've decided to try two Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT GPU's (one version of this board is backward compatible with my system and available from Apple).
These two GPUs will be connected by an SLI ribbon cable (not the bridge).
At this point I'm fairly certain that this set-up will allow my Mac Pro to experience Nvidia's SLI technology and be able to run all applications (using the latest drivers) at the maximum settings - both natively under OS X (10.5.2+) or in Boot Camp.
If true, this will bring new life to my Mac Pro!
When I receive and test them I'll let you know!
Cheers,
tyvol

[Losman]

:shock::grin:

Yes, yes, sounds good, let me know your test results.

I think I could part with my X1900XT GPU for 2 8800's for a total of 1 GB!!! :mrgreen:

Also, I own the 1st generation Macpro as well, so we are in the same boat..

Thanks for the update tyvol..O0

Have fun

Losman

[tyvol]

Well,
The two 8800 GTs work fine in my first generation (2007) Mac Pro.
They have to use slots 1 (16x) and 4 (8x) for best available slot bandwidth.
They each have to also be connected to power from the motherboard, and this is no problem.
They are also connected together by an SLI ribbon cable.
Alas, nVIDIA's SLI is not enabled for either Mac OS X or Vista.
The 2007/2008 Mac Pro's won't allow this (so far).
However, the two 8800 GTs are some faster that the X1900 XT.
Crysis settings are automatically upgraded from Medium to High and the Performance Experience rating for 3D gaming under Vista 32 bit went up a notch.
There is a new GPU you may now wish to consider, and that is the ATI HD 3870. Bare Feats shows it tests out faster in almost all respects than an 8800 GT (http://www.barefeats.com/harper16.html). That's because it contains two processors in one PCI Express 2.0 slot (this 3870 is backward compatible to the 2007 vintage Mac Pro's (Cloverdale) and 2008 vintage (so far) Mac Pro's (Harpertown)). Unfortunately for me, Bare Feats doesn't have a head to head comparison of the 2 processor 3870 to two 8800 GTs connected via SLI. Such a test would, I believe, make the 8800 GTs come out ahead, but at a much higher price. The price of the 3870 is around $200! I wish I'd known about it sooner...
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
tyvol

[Losman]

Sweet, will check out the link..(man you don't mess around that was quick):mrgreen:

Will definitely check into it, unfortunately the wife has drained the coffers (bank) with getting a new kitchen installed :rolleyes:, so will probably be a few weeks..:lol:

Thanks tyvol for the link and good info..

Losman

[NovaCatt]

Hiya Peeps, :wave:

@ Losman.....
Hiya Mate,

'Gratz on ya 700 posts here on :txuflag:! O0

Cheers & Thranx

PS This post has no real relevance to anything mac related.... :p;):lol:

[tyvol]

Well,
I'm a bit mistaken.
Two of nVidia's GeForce 8800 GTs are actually way more than competitive to the ATI Radeon 3870.
Take a look:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/graphics-cards/3dmark06-v1-0-2-hdr-sm3-0-score,538.html
http://techreport.com/articles.x/13603
http://techreport.com/articles.x/13603/10
In summary, and I quote:
"The 3870 Mac & PC Edition could still be an interesting upgrade for folks with older Mac Pros seeking to play recent 3D games. Those shopping for a Mac Pro now may want to think twice, however: the GeForce 8800 GT 512MB is a $150 upgrade from the base configuration, and it's generally faster than the 3870 out of the box."
Two more which confirm this:
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/14932
http://techreport.com/articles.x/14686/9
Summary: I know from personal experience that I can see that two GeForce 8800 GTs connected via SLI is faster than the X1900 XT and other GPUs (like the 3870) but I'm comforted (big time) that these tests clearly bear this out.
Cheers!
tyvol

[kirpal]

Hi Guys, I am looking for X3 mods for mac. Do you know of any?