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killwater
30-12-2012, 08:57 PM
Hello
First of all thank you for a great mod.
My problem is that there is no race on race hostile action. For example I am pursued by a RBN Boron Ray and friends to the Split sector. Split military does not react to breaching they core sector boundaries by Boron military ships. So I made them hit Split Raptor pretty hard - 50% shields and nothing - they watch the views like nothing happened. So I made them destroy Split Trading Dock. And nothing. Absolutly no reaction. Station security don't fire at them also (checked in Argon sector). Is it intended?

Second thing is spawning support all over again so fast that when I kill one Skate another is on the gate like there is a carrier waiting behind it.

2Blackhawk
30-12-2012, 09:14 PM
Have you tried to excuse by Comms to the Ray?

Increasing your rank with the Borons could help as well

Seion
30-12-2012, 09:27 PM
I have noticed some combat between Terrans and Argon before, not sure why it was happening, just that it was. But I have no idea if those are scripted events or someone just flew into the wrong broadside volley.

killwater
30-12-2012, 09:33 PM
They don't want to talk with me. It is not a problem with a Ray. If I keep out of Boron space (at least one sector ) they don't pursue me. The problem is neutral behavior of split military (even after agrresive action of Borons) and never ending reinforcment (this apply to TP+ and flying factory guards too). It seems like as long as wing commander is alive reinforcments keep coming. I think that pursuit should end before they hit other race teritory.

MadMac
30-12-2012, 09:56 PM
I had a TCDF Teladi Kea with escorts pursue me from their core sectors all the way across the universe. I'd jump to a sector and they'd show up a few minutes later. Jump to another sector and here they come again. Persistent little buggers...I finally had to feed them to a Xenon PX.

insolent1
30-12-2012, 10:11 PM
There is race on race action, i've seen the paranid and argon run amok in terran sectors. I think the problem is that the boron and split don't actually share a border. From what i've seen of the split they normally head to rhonkars dismissal and the boron go to otana prime, they change if they get a border with xenon or kha'ak.
It actually sounds like vanilla where I have often seen sector defences stand by and do nothing while another race destroys their sector.
Best advice is when chased head to the xenon and kha'ak as their the only ones who will help you :)

Alternatively try the boneheads i'm sure they'd like a slice of that Ray

killwater
30-12-2012, 10:30 PM
Well, it means that playing as a pirate has absolutely no sens. If I cap ships from all races except Split I will have a lot of capital ships on my back every time I get close to a race sector? And almost no chance to destroy them as reinforcment keep coming all the time from the gate? Not funny at all I think.

Scoob
31-12-2012, 01:17 PM
I have noticed something a little odd. The old "trick" of leading an enemy to accidentally hit another race's ship causing them to fight, doesn't seem to work.

It's used to be, and let's use Split / Boron as an example, that if a Race was -10 to another - so technically neutral, but not friendly - that they's not tollerate ANY accidental fire, as they might from someone who is Friend (so +10,000 and above)

I tried several times early game to get a ship who was an enemy to me to hit a ship who was a friend to me, but -10 to them & never got a reaction. This was surprising as it is a very old trick. I recall an Argon Cerberus getting hammered by a small wing (M6 & fighters) of Paranid as I hid behind it, and there was ZERO reaction from the Cerberus. Considering the lack of tollerance if one of MY turrets accidentally hit anyone...well, at a -10 rep level that usually mean insta-hostile.

It's funny, at one point my Rep with the Paranid was low enough so I was very much "attack on site" for them, but - as a test - setting other Races who were -10 to the Paranid previously to the same level...well, they still largely ignored the Paranid. Only when I set the level to -9000 and something, did the races start reacting to accidental fire. Incidentally, I'm well in with the Paranid these days, yet there are still many Hosite stations and hostile ships. I admit, I ended up removing these hostile ships as it seemed a little daft.

Not sure if this is a tweak XTC has done, but something is very off with relations. I've seen fleets from various races invading Pirate sectors, only for the opposing fleets to largely ignore each other unless one happens to get into turret range and the "attack all enemies" turret command actually fires. At no point do the invading ships make a b-line for the Pirates and at no point do the Pirates rush to defend - UNLESS that first critical turret shot lands. It can make for some rather boring invasions.

It seems to me that these issues might all be linked as reputation and reaction to enemy presence and fire feels quite different. I will add that I've been playing AP exclusively since it came out, so maybe it's just a TC thing.

Scoob.

Nomad_Soul
01-01-2013, 07:31 AM
I've noticed the same.

Scoob
01-01-2013, 12:10 PM
I double-checked the settings again and the Pirates do indeed seem to only be -10 to the races. This would normally mean neutral, but any "bad" actiion results in instant retaliation. This is perfect for normal pirate activity. If they have illegal wares on board or they attack another ship they get targetted accordingly. However, in the case of Race fleets invading a Pirate sector, combat only occurs if the ships get in weapons range - something they are NOT trying to do. As such we get the odd (but explainable) behaviour of BOTH fleets just flying around, almost waiting for the other to make a move.

I think the invasion script needs to force-target the pirates, OR have the Pirates Force-target the invaders. I know how TC handles relationships is pretty flaky though. The invasion script could always set a temporary -10,000 rep between the invading Race and the Pirates - to show the Race-wide actions against the pirates. Once the timer is done, the relationship reverts back to -10. This would cause skirmishes to breakout elsewhere potentially, but it does fit in with the whole race taking action together. Even if the Pirates the all the races as -10, but the given race sees the Pirates as -10000, then the Race will initiate the attack and the pirate will retaliate.

Now, we could just tweak all Pirates to be -10,000 rep - so Enemy, shot on site - but that'd upset the balance elsewhere as the various pirate clans aren't simply "bad guys", but distinct clans - it's just the TC engine can't handle it. I imagine, ideally, the various Pirate Clans would be their own distinct race with a loose alliegance to their "parent" race. However the race limit prevents this.

It's frustrating to see the Pirates Jump in a fleet when they detect the race incursion, but then all ships just idle around until the invaders eventually jump out. Sometime you get a good fight, but usually the fleet only engages smaller ships. I always make a note of GNS Pirate sector invasion notifications, then I go there at the given time or watch remotely. So I've seen quite a few of these non-battles.

So, from my own testing, I think the script that sends the invading fleet needs to temporarily set the pirate rep wth them to -10000, the race rep to the pirates can remain at -10. So, when the fleet invades, they see proper enemies to attack. The relationship can be reset back to -10 at the end of the invasion. As it's just the Races perception of the Pirates that is changed, this should prevent any extra attacks on Pirates in the sectors of other races. How does this sound?

Scoob.

K.J.
03-01-2013, 04:26 PM
I have noticed something a little odd. The old "trick" of leading an enemy to accidentally hit another race's ship causing them to fight, doesn't seem to work.
It's used to be, and let's use Split / Boron as an example, that if a Race was -10 to another - so technically neutral, but not friendly - that they's not tollerate ANY accidental fire, as they might from someone who is Friend (so +10,000 and above)
It's not intended to have them neutral like that. Something is off with the reaction, you can also sometimes see that with normal sector patrol missions that involve pirates. Sometimes the Sector forces just fly along.