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View Full Version : Wares Differences between shield types? (Military, Hard, Barrier, Flux)



Calvin Hobbes
06-01-2013, 01:33 AM
I've got about 10 hrs of flight time in and managed to find a battered Kia and fix it up after cruising around in a Sunburst for a while. The Kia came with a "Medium Military Shield," and over the course of time I've acquired one called a "Barrier Shield", a "Flux Shield", and two "Hard Shields"; all mediums. I've noted that the military ones are worth more at equipment docks, and recall from XTM (IIRC) that they recharge something like 2/3 faster (assuming the ships shield gen can keep up).

I was wondering if that carried over to XTC 2.0 and what the other shield types did. I did a quick google search and a search thru the forums (plus a peruse thru the 1.0.7 Manual) and didn't find anything that discussed it.

Thanks Much,

Spaceman Spiff

Loriel
06-01-2013, 02:51 AM
Unfortunately I don't think you will find much discussion here, though it would be nice to have a wiki entry eventually when activity calms down a bit.

As you say, the shield concept seems to owe a lot to the ideas in XTM, but wasn't present in the earlier versions of XTC, so isn't in the current manual.

Best place to get some information is to look at the descriptions of the shields - either the ones in your freight, or the ones you have seen to date which will be recorded in the Encyclopedia.

It appears that the shields are based on old favourite sizes (1 MJ, 5 MJ, 25 MJ, etc), but the different types vary somewhat from the base types in capacity and/or recharge rate, and there is some consequent variation in volume from the base types. As might be expected, more expensive is generally better.

Loriel

Comander-07
06-01-2013, 05:23 AM
Short answer: Flux = fast reload, less capacity; Hard = more capacity, less reload; Barier = half of both;
The military versions are the better ones; so the military flux shield = very fast reload, same capacity as normal; military hard shield = same reload but very high capacity; military barier shield: high capacity and fast reload. I personally dont like the flux shields at all, useless for me, so I think the best for "Hit and run" is the military hard shield, because the very high capacity; but for a longer combat the military barier shields will be the better choice.

Calvin Hobbes
06-01-2013, 05:27 AM
Yeah, I'd looked in the encyclopedia, too, but it just seemed to refer to them by size. I've seen mil. shield fabs, so I've been on the lookout for fabs for the other shield types. But the 'Nids and Splitties won't let my poor Boron backside in their sectors (yet...) and neither will the Terrans. I wonder if the types are keyed to races, with some variations in special abilities (like the old pirate shields were supposed to help shield cargo from inspections).

I wonder if it's even possible to script in shield-vs-weapon combos (i.e. Flux shields protect better against ion weapons, but not as well against ammo-based weapons).

I 'spose well see...

If I were *real* adventurous, I'd try to crack into the ships files and pull out the performance data for a spreadsheet.

** Edit **

THAT'S what I was looking for!

Now I can make some educated decisions about which ships get what shields.

Much obliged!


Unfortunately I don't think you will find much discussion here, though it would be nice to have a wiki entry eventually when activity calms down a bit.

As you say, the shield concept seems to owe a lot to the ideas in XTM, but wasn't present in the earlier versions of XTC, so isn't in the current manual.

Best place to get some information is to look at the descriptions of the shields - either the ones in your freight, or the ones you have seen to date which will be recorded in the Encyclopedia.

It appears that the shields are based on old favourite sizes (1 MJ, 5 MJ, 25 MJ, etc), but the different types vary somewhat from the base types in capacity and/or recharge rate, and there is some consequent variation in volume from the base types. As might be expected, more expensive is generally better.

Loriel

pixel
06-01-2013, 07:07 AM
The description of the different shield types explicitly state the capacity/recharge multipliers - it's easy to miss because the descriptions all start the same, and the multipliers are at the bottom.

K.J.
06-01-2013, 04:09 PM
Races only offer specific variants (besides the baseline shield)
if you don't want to find out yourself:
Argon: Flux+ Hard
Boron: Barrier+ Hard
Paranid: Barrier+ Hard
Split: Barrier+ Flux
Teladi: Flux+ Hard
Terran: Barrier+ Flux
and they only offer a certain selection of military shield sizes. Iirc Split offer Medium and Small mil shields, but not Colossal for example. Another race might have Colossal and tiny for offer.
And yes, checking the description of something more closely is worthwhile - e.g. you can also see which shiptypes are dockable at certain ships, if they have docks.

insolent1
06-01-2013, 05:04 PM
Its all in the in game encycolpedia, nearly everything has a nice little write up about including all the shield types

Scoob
07-01-2013, 01:58 PM
Hi,

I made some basic notes on shields while doing some modding of my own, here they are:



Shield Stats.

Base Shield for a given class gives a low efficiency of 0.6 - percentage improvements must relate to this number.


Shield ID Capacity Efficiency Required Power

SS_SHIELD_A 1000 kW 0.6 100 kW
SS_SHIELD_A_1 750 kW 0.9 100 kW - 50% more efficient but 25% less Capacity
SS_SHIELD_A_2 1500 kW 0.45 100 kW - 25% less efficient but 50% more Capacity (0.6 base * 0.75)
SS_SHIELD_A_3 1250 kW 0.75 100 kW - 25% more efficient and 25% more Capacity
SS_SHIELD_XTC_A 1250 kW 1.2 100 kW - 100% more efficient and 25% more Capacity
SS_SHIELD_XTC_A_1 1250 kW 1.5 100 kW - 150% more efficient and 25% more Capacity
SS_SHIELD_XTC_A_2 1750 kW 1.05 100 kW - 75% more efficient and 25% more Capacity
SS_SHIELD_XTC_A_3 1500 kW 1.35 100 kW - 125% more efficient and 50% more Capacity

The above is for the basic Tiny shield, base of 1mj.

The "B" 5mj, "C" 25mj, "D" 125mj and "E" 500mj shield all follow this pattern.

The "F" 1.5gj shield does not, see below:

Shield ID Capacity Efficiency Required Power

SS_SHIELD_F 1500000 kW 0.4 4000 kW - Base
SS_SHIELD_F_1 1305000 kW 0.6 4000 kW - 50% more efficient but 13% less capacity
SS_SHIELD_F_2 1875000 kW 0.3 4000 kW - 25% less efficient but 25% more capacity
SS_SHIELD_F_3 1680000 kW 0.5 4000 kW - 25% more efficient and 12% more capacity
SS_SHIELD_XTC_F 1680000 kW 0.8 4000 kW - 100% more efficient and 12% more capacity
SS_SHIELD_XTC_F_1 1500000 kW 1.0 4000 kW - 150% more efficient and base capacity
SS_SHIELD_XTC_F_2 2055000 kW 0.7 4000 kW - 75% more efficient and 37% more capacity
SS_SHIELD_XTC_F_3 1875500 kW 0.9 4000 kW - 125% more efficient and 25% more capacity


Keeping capacities the same, giving all shields an efficiency boost should aid survivability - especially for fighters.


I think this is a correct, though typos are possible as I was compiling this v. late one night (morning) :)

Personally, to compliment my own bullet mod, I doubled the Efficiency for all shields so as to maintain the % balances. This was because in my game bullet speeds are MUCH faster for fighter and anti-fighter class weapons to hit more - a lot more. Also, for me, it made combat much more fun and really quite hard - which I like. Fighter vs. fighter combat is brutal now but, avoid getting hit for a few seconds (hard) and your shields recharge that little bit more.

Scoob.

Char
07-01-2013, 03:56 PM
I personally dont like the flux shields at all, useless for me, so I think the best for "Hit and run" is the military hard shield, because the very high capacity; but for a longer combat the military barier shields will be the better choice.

Depends on size! May have little worth on a slow tiny vessel but on a fast M2 Destroyer "Colossal Military Flux shields" are 1000x worth their weigt in Nividium cause in "Hit and run" you will not only be ready to engage again with shields at 100% in 3 minutes instead of 10 but also your can catch your opponent with his pants down.

Heteran Leticron
07-01-2013, 04:12 PM
well due to the fact that jumping replenishes your shields entirely, hard shields are the best choice and whenever your shields get low, you jump to a gate in the same sector and have right again full shields. i think it makes it kind of too easy, since you can just move the fight close to a gate and permanently charge up your jumpdrive to never run out of shield energy at the expenses of a little energy cells..

dctrjons
07-01-2013, 04:45 PM
well due to the fact that jumping replenishes your shields entirely

Don't rely on that, that will be fixed.

A side note. The game seems to do a good job of prioritizing what shields to equip. So...while it is pretty clear you want to manage it yourself (as I do as well), for people that don't want to bother...the option of loading up a ship with all the different types you have in stock and then unloading the shields that don't get equipped is a viable option.

Scoob
07-01-2013, 07:49 PM
They're fixing that are they? I read in another thread that it was an old TC engine bug, not and XTC issue. However, I don't ever recall getting a shield top up each jump beforehand.

Scoob.

dctrjons
07-01-2013, 09:20 PM
Yeah, it's the mod. He was made aware of his egregious error. ;)

I went along with that idea, but I remembered having used an improvised 'emergency' jump within a sector and I know shields were still a concern whilst trying to back my fat-ass though the gate to get the heck out of Dodge.

K.J.
07-01-2013, 09:25 PM
They're fixing that are they?
If we can find the cause, yes.
"better" shields are autoinstalled if you collect them. standard<flux<hard<barrier and civilian<military

dctrjons
07-01-2013, 09:28 PM
If we can find the cause, yes.
That would be Sam, what the fix is...? Dunno.

Scoob
07-01-2013, 10:12 PM
If we can find the cause, yes.
"better" shields are autoinstalled if you collect them. standard<flux<hard<barrier and civilian<military

Now that explains why after destroying a larger ship, and flying into one of his dropped shields I recharged to 100% I assumed that was the shields juggling around to fit the better one I picked up in place of one of my not so good ones.

Btw: isn't the "Hard" shield usually the best protection? I.e Large Military Hard has 218 kj of overall "hit points", whereas the Large Military Barrier has 187 kj. Ok, so the the recharge on the latter is better, but quite often I've found that it's hit points that count in certain fights and recharge in another.

As an example, in M2 vs. M2 fights assume both ships are pounding away & doing equal damage then the one with the most hit points wins. If however we have ships that may be able to avoid fire, then recharge might give them an edge. Personally, I think the Military Hard shields are generally the most effective. I did try using the fast-charging Flux shields on my faster M6's - thinking they'd be able to evade fire to a certain degree - however, every time, more shields lasted longer. I have since tweaked shields and bullets in my own game to balance things out to my personal preference more.

Of course, theoretically, a faster charging shield might be able to withstand a certain level of damage indefinitely, where's the larger, but slower charging, shield would gradually be whittled away. Also, in a player ship, say something smaller than an M6, the player is usually better at dodging than an AI due to the use of strafe. Here of course recharge rate can become even more effective. Swings and roundabouts really *

Scoob.

* I prefer swings :)

dctrjons
08-01-2013, 02:21 AM
Hard is most often better yes.
There's a curve essentially. Regen is better against low sustained dps (drone horde), after the incoming DPS excedes the regen rate, Hard type becomes better. The health of the shield 'creates' regen time. The other benefit is just helping prevent smaller craft being taken out by single shots. Regen shields are also helpful for ships that can 'adjust' incoming DPS based on maneuvers, but that is a specialized case.

Another use that I haven't tried yet is that Flux shields might be good for increasing DPS via laser recharging...but I'm not sure, that might come out in the wash if it uses the base ship value.

King of the World
08-01-2013, 12:53 PM
Yesterday I bought some small hard shields and they are still in my freight room. Has someone an idea where I can sell it?

Joelnh
08-01-2013, 01:07 PM
you could put them in the cargo hold of a ship that you plan to sell.

King of the World
08-01-2013, 01:13 PM
Yeah, I know. But this solution is the last one, which I want to use. ;)

Loriel
08-01-2013, 01:57 PM
Yesterday I bought some small hard shields and they are still in my freight room. Has someone an idea where I can sell it?

I am fairly sure that you can sell them at Equipment Docks (and presumably at Military Outposts). I just checked by selling one myself - though my usual strategy is to sell the plain ones and keep the "special" ones until I decide which of the various "special" types I want to use.

It's possible that this may be race-related, like weapons, so that you would need to find the race that specialises in that shield size.

It's also possible that it's difficulty-related, or governed by one of the AL settings.

Loriel

Joelnh
08-01-2013, 03:07 PM
And you need to make sure the setting is on, or is it off....so you can sell to stations.