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    Thread: XTC news 24th December 2011

    1. #191
      TXU Full Member Nemoricus's Avatar
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      Good luck with the shield balancing, then.


    2. #192
      TXU Full Member Crellion22's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Aragon Speed View Post
      Not until we have nailed it ourselves. Currently we have different sets of shields set up in different ways to get certain results from them, but until we can get them working how we want them to, we don't wish to comment on how they work in case we have to change them because of the engine or because something is just not feasible for whatever reason.
      As for example the low hp fast regen shields being pointless cause the shield generators on the vessels cant cope and if you change them it also helps the high hp low regen shields making thise imba? Oh ok ok no more asshat comments but the ecitment this post is generating now is cool... moar updates next month pls


    3. #193
      Moderator thetack's Avatar
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      or crelion22 if you realy want to speculate and get excited maybee the different sheilds types stop different projectiles or energy wepons

      the great art of mindless speculation


    4. #194
      TXU Full Member Crellion22's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by thetack View Post
      or crelion22 if you realy want to speculate and get excited maybee the different sheilds types stop different projectiles or energy wepons

      the great art of mindless speculation
      I suppose you have a point there but my speculations are a bit closer to the known facts... (from the first page of this very thread):

      Shield system reworked - Added new types of shields. Hardened shield types for extra strength but slower to charge, faster charging shields that are weaker and finally a set of shields that charge faster than normal and are stronger than normal but not as fast or as strong as the specialized shield sets. Add in military versions of these shields as well and you have a total of 48 different shields to choose from now.


    5. #195
      Elder Administrator Aragon Speed's Avatar
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      Post removed as a fixed version has been posted by KJ 2 posts down.

      Last edited by Aragon Speed; 18-09-2012 at 01:15 PM.

    6. #196
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      Bloody hell, that's some massive update, cheers Aragorn!

      Love the changes as well, they do seem logical, also - "Ships with backturret are more expensive, because it increases their survivability against missiles by a huge margin, as almost every dangerous missile can be shot down. Ships with series-inbuilt backturret have 110% basecost. Ships that get a backturret by a variant have to pay +30% basecost" - Little changes even like that I love, awesome!

      Just hope the final stretch for that remaining 10% doesn't take too long...

      Last edited by Xydonus; 18-09-2012 at 03:29 PM.

    7. #197
      TXU Ultra Hero K.J.'s Avatar
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      whoops the formating didn't go to well i guess ^^ Let me correct that. I also added some info, because this list was originally for our team and the testers, so some interesting changes where already included a while ago and where not listed.

      For those of you who wish to keep up-to-date, we are currently working on a re-balance which is about 90% done and in testing atm: Here are the ideas behind the rebalance. We've not just edited the T-files to make the changes, we've also fixed many smaller bugs that popped up while sniffing around in the files. Many of us where not happy with the current system, and performance is a big issue. Resignation can't be the solution if we have gone so far on many other fronts, that's why we made this rebalance.

      The aims we had when creating this rebalance:
      -Reduce Bulletspam and therefore increase performance.
      -Make Ships last longer in combat. Nothing extreme, but not "gone in a fraction of a second".
      -Eiminate various problems such as:
      -Inconsistence in Ship Armament (Boron M2 has no flak at all, Split has all around Flak but only half the guns of other M2, etc).
      -Inconsistence in Weapons (Price, Notoriety, usage).
      -Fix bad turretlayouts and remove unused turrets from the models. WYSIWYG!
      -Making the weapon choises more easier and understandable.
      -Remove the player centric ship balance: e.g. the AI doesn't understand the concept of alligning itself perfectly to have Front, Left ,Right and possibly top turret fire at a target nor can it perform a special trick to maximise the ships performance. Therefore it's not a factor in the stats. Everything in playerhands turns into a weapon of mass destruction, trying to hamper that would just hamper the rest of the universe instead.

      Beware, lengthy list ahead...

      Changes Laser:
      1. Weapons are now sorted into two categories:
        "Standard" and "Power". A Standard weapon is weaker, but has longer range, requires less energy/second and is a little bit more energy efficient (=less energy per damage). It's also cheaper and requires less cargospace. HEPT is one such weapon, Photon Pulse Cannon another one.
        The Standard weapon can be mounted by all ships of all commonwealth races. Power weapons are unique to each race, but they are very similar if you compare them against each other. This was done because there is no choice in which weapon to pick from the big list, as a ship can only mount the standard weapon plus the powerweapon belonging to the race. If you want another powerweapon you would have to switch ships, which already have their unique traits.

        Terrans and Xenon have no Standard weapon available, so the choice was made to give them a balanced weapon, that is inbetween both categories.
        An exception to the categories is the M4 section. The PBE has far more advantage in shielddamage to be able to make a dent into M3, otherwise M4 would be completely useless as "Interceptor".
      2. Weaponsounds and Effects completely overhauled and improved. No Pew-Pew sounds anymore, the effects a weapon has will be appropriate to the kind of damage it does.
      3. Reduced RPM across the board. M3 weapons have about 100-120 RPM (was 280), M2 weapons somewhere between 10 and 15RPM per gun (was up to 90!).
      4. Guns reduced on M2 ships, top and bottom turrets became dedicated Anti-Fighter turrets. The Flak guns are usually on top and bottom turrets. One exception is the Kyoto M2+ :because of the flat design, the shorter range of the SSC (middle between A and BFLAK) and the *!"%*& avoidance the fighters would avoid immediately once in flak range, therefore the sides mount the flak instead.
      5. Speed of slow Bullets increased. Bullets with 250m/s will never hit a target 5Km away unless it's stationary. Reduces amount of wasted bullets.

        Point 3,4 and 5 where done to reduce the bulletcount in the air at the same time. It was also done to reduce damage withouthaving to lower the stats, as that would conflict with the M7 Capital guns. So if 2 M2 engage each other at maximum range there are ~100 bullets in the air at maximum now, instead of about 1100. Also remember that it's not just the bullets that draw ressources, but impact/launch gfx and sound effects.
        Together with the improved sound and visual effects this creates much nicer capitalship battles, the individual salvos gain more "weight" as they don't drown in a carpet of bullets. And you can enjoy them a little bit before you see the final boom.
      6. Flakgun amount was also reduced, M7 usually have 4 Flak guns now, M2 have 8. M1 have 12 guns maximum, but only if they sacrifise their heavy lasers on the sides.
        The Antifighter capability of a capital ship can now be measured in the amount of Flakguns available, because Alpha & Beta have almost the same stats damage wise. Beta has 1Km extra range and a bit more speed (->more accuracy) but requires more energy.
        Flak can miss if a fighter evades, no 98% hitquote anymore. Hitquote still high though, and still the best choice for Anti Fighter/Anti Missile tasks. Their damage per energy was reduced because of their accuracy compared to other lasers.
      7. H. Massdriver & H Ion Disruptor included in balance as they are obtainable ingame in some way
      8. Projectile Weapons:
        Massdriver & H. Massdriver require energy to counter M4 vs M2 exploits. It still works but takes longer due to energy limitation. They are designed to take out a larger foe that is heavily shielded (MD as M4 Powerweapon against M3; HMD as M6 Powerweapon against M7). It takes almost the same time to kill a normaly shielded enemy as with any other Powerweapon of the same class. However, as Hull can't regenerate, Massdrivers have a small "timepenalty". So they are a way to bypass hard shields for example, but you don't gain any advantage over normal shielded enemies. Because of their effectiveness the cost in amunition is high, and the cargospace taken by ammo crates is higher, to limit ammo on the ship.

        Other projectile weapons are very similar to their pure-energy counterparts. They also require energy (a bit less then non projectile weapons) and have no stat bonus. But their ammo is cheap and the additional freight volume required for sufficient ammo supply is only very minor, as the Weapons themself are lighter. They are also cheaper then they would have been if they had no ammo. After a number of kills this bonus is eaten up because of ammo usage - so if you want to sent ships to certain death in battle, equip em with those ammo weapons
      9. Ion Disruptors (Normal and Heavy) have a very big cargo volume, so you have to think twice if you can afford to take a full load of those usefull weapons.
      10. Plasma Burst Generator (M3 Pirate Powerweapon) now shoots fiery plasma balls (new texture) instead of a screen-blocking, fps-crunching wall of flame.
      11. Betty speaks laser names as far as possible by using snippets. Reactivated existing names.
      12. Boron M6 IBC isn't a beamweapon anymore, it was too much of a pain in the ass to try to get it on an equal standing with the other powerweapons. Either it was too weak as cockpitweapon or it was too strong as turret weapon. I made a new slightly elongated bullet, so i hope that's a fitting substitute. Paranid Plasma Beam Cannon isn't a beam either, so there's my excuse^^
      13. Xenon Polaron Emitter isn't a beamweapon anymore as well, it's more like a very fast laser with a similar speedlevel to flak. A bit faster, but much smaller hitbox. Think of Star Wars Turbolaser (yes, it's red too).
      14. Lasertower de-nerfed (vanilla range is 5.8km, was 2.1km) as it was useless against small craft. With it's slow turning rate it will never be able to fire at fighters at close range.



      Shields:
      1. Colossal Shield (formerly 2GJ) are now 1,5GJ to be able to have Shieldtypes with more capacity, without running into engine bugs. It's not 1Gj because otherwise some ships would have to mount up to 20 Shields, so i used the middle. Shieldamount of all Colossal Shield Users has been adjusted accordingly.
      2. Military shields give less "base capacity bonus", as the weapons are weaker now and to prevent the "invincible" feeling that someone might get with full military shield loadout.
      3. Performance of each shield is listed in its description
      4. Shieldnames are spoken (e.g. Medium Military Shield, XL(for Huge) Shield Emitter , etc)
      5. Capacity bonuses for Huge and Colossal have been reduced in magnitude, because the reloadrate of shields midbattle is insignificant for the outcome of the battle. Capacity is the only thing that keeps you alive. The reloadrate will be important after the battle, but it's a rather lengthy process, with the largest ships taking from 30-45mins to reload their shields. It's been like that since vanilla and hasn't changed here either.
      6. Military shields require more cargospace, special shieldvariants also require a little bit more (maximum is + 20% for mil. hard).
      7. (not directly shields, but related) If a ship has more shieldslots the ships shieldgenerator is automatically worse then it would be, as capacity is one of the most important aspects to survival with the lowered laserdamage.

      Ships
      The feel or purpose of each class didn't really change, most stats are very similar in value to the old ones, if not the same. Changes where made to make them work with the new laser&shieldvalues, to improve AI effectiveness, or to provide more attractive choices in the same class. Biggest change is propably in the M2+ class, as there was no common denominator at all with performance ranging from upsized M2 to supermegafortress. Many Shipscenes where modified to implement the changes properly. No hacksawing - in other words, if there is a turret with two guns on your model that turret will shoot lasers and not be there without purpose.

      1. Carriers:
        • Increased Lasergenerators and capacity. They can now defend themself without running out of juice after 10 seconds. They have half the firepower (maximum possible lasers firing at one target at once) of an M2, but only 1/3 the lasergenerators. This helps AI battles, because AI doesn't understand the concept of a carrier, tactical retreat or keeping distance - it headbutts the first thing that comes in range.
        • Race Carriers have the best amount of AF capability of the capital classes (except M2+) with 12 Flak guns in total (but limited time - Energy lasts about 45 seconds at full strain with 12 Beta Flak)
          They have high ship amount, since they usually don't have to worry about defending themself (in theory...).

          Pirate and Yaki on the other hand can't rely on protection from their fleet. Therefore they have better Anti-Capital ship capabilities and more Laser energy but sacrifise some Anti Fighter Defense and Docking Space. However, they don't stand a chance against a fully armed destroyer, as they are still a carrier and of M1 class.
          Ok basically it was just done because of the models and to not always have the same configuration.
        • New Prices. Most decisive factor is dockingspace. The old ones ranging from 50 to 88m just seemed too improper and random. New prices from 65-85m.

      2. M2P:
        There are 2 kinds of M2+ : Those with M6 Hangarbay's and those without. M6 Hangarbays are very usefull, so they are more limited. Those Bays can be used to increase Cargocapacity by 200k-300k (because they can dock everything up to M6, including TS), so the cargobays of M6 Carriers are lower. The big hangar takes space after all
        • M2+ with M3 docks got one Supplydock for up to M6.
        • Speed got increased a bit, since the average XTC sector ranges from 120 to 160Km. A ship creeping with 24m/s is of no use other then as a jump capable station or sector decoy. Especially since NPC's also use them and have to respond to a threat more then often.
        • Shield capacity is vital in surviving, that's why ships with more shieldslots have weaker generators.
          A single M2 is no threat for them (unless commanded by an incompetent admiral), but if they can't redraw and recharge their shields after this they will have troubles against a second M2. Because of the long recharge time, AI M2+ are not invincible for AI M2 if attacked more then once, or by multiple smaller capitals in a certain timeframe.

      3. M2:
        • Maximum Anti-Capital Guns on target = 16.
        • All M2 received a single fighter dock to have a small utility ship at hand. It only docks up to M4, to make M4 more attractive. M3 are too powerfull in playerhands to dock them at a M2. No TS or M6 docks anymore, no exceptions, no special treatment. Such docks are privilege of M2+ as they can't dock anywhere themself.
        • Some Turretlayouts where broken (propably still from vanilla), they where fixed. Fixed some holes in Poseidon and Tyr as well.

      4. M3:
        • Everything overhauled.
          The base variants where first balanced. Like before, Ships with fewer shieldslots get a slight boost in shieldgen to their basestat.
          Then a sheme was used for all the different variants including the pirate ones. The more improvements they got the more expensive they became, if they traded in something that reduced their stat they became cheaper.
        • The additional shieldslot for Vanguard versions was removed, and one shieldslot removed from sentinel versions (had two additional over the base variant). This was done to reduce the maximum Shields on M3, because of the weakened lasers. The other variants are a little bit more attraktive because of this as well.
        • Ships with backturret are more expensive, because it increases their survivability against missiles by a huge margin, as almost every dangerous missile can be shot down. Ships with series-inbuilt backturret have 110% basecost. Ships that get a backturret by a variant have to pay +30% basecost (e.g. Mamba Raider, Falcon Sentinel&Vanguard). The backturrets where already there, didn't change those.
        • Prices overhauled, the most expensive variant is Sentinel followed by Vanguard, as these seem to be the most usefull, most used and most favored variants. Raider not ridiculously overpriced anymore. M3 cost like M3 should, M3+ like M3+ , not vice versa.
        • Hauler Variants have reduced laserstats and have 2 Frontguns removed but always have a backturret. If their basemodel already has a turret the price isn't increased as much and their stats are not reduced as much. Opposite if one had to be added.

      5. Corvettes:
        • Turning rate for M6 and normal M6+ improved, turning rate of "special ships" reduced to be in line with normal ships (was triple before *rolleyes*)
        • Normal M6+ upgunned if necessary so they are on eqal footing with each other (Full turret coverage, full 8 frontlasers)

      6. Drone Carriers:
        • Similar to the M2+, there was no real guideline and the stats where partially just copied from normal M7 and halfed.
          Drone carriers got more shields, from 1GJ to 2&2.5GJ, to stay alive longer in AI battles. The amount of defense guns was also standardised. They now have 2 turrets with 2 XL laser and 2 turrets with one flak gun and a double M3 laser rearturret for missiledefense. This helps them to defend them against a lone M6 or 3 M3, that would otherwise kill the frigate with ease.
          Because they are drone frigates/light carriers they can't dock M3 anymore, only M5 and M4. If you want to carry big numbers of M3 you need a carrier.
        • Ariadne upsized as only the drones fitted into the holes, but almost no real M4 or M5. Was a bit dwarfish compared to the others aswell.
        • Griffon upsized because it was way too small.

      7. Frigates:
        • All frigates without hangar got a M5 dockport as a consolation prize for not having a hangar, except some special ships (Swordfish, Q, ...). Like with M2, no TS or M6 docks anymore, no exceptions, no special treatment.
          Maneuverability was reduced, as they felt more like oversized fighters on steroids rather than capitalships. They are still very maneuverable, but playing baseball with enemy fighters is more difficult now.
        • To increase AI effectiveness of the class, the sideturrets got XL guns now (like the frontguns), so they can also put pressure on enemy targets if they are avoiding a spacefly again.
        • Flak amount was capped at 4 guns per ship, with one exception (you'll have to find out which later )

      8. Missile Frigates:
        • Cargo capacity got reduced to about 5500 in average. With full shielding and 1000x Jumpenergy you got place for 100 Barrage Missiles + 240 Torpedos or 290 Torpedos. This was done because torpedoes have half the volume compared to 1.2
        • Torpedo tubes limited to 16 in total (just affects Ares)
        • Hull decreased from M1 to frigate level, shields increased instead.
        • Additional Turrets created (if necessary) controlling 4 torpedo tubes each. This gives the other ships that didn't already have this a higher firepower if controlled by AI commands, as more turrets= more missile firingsequences. The torpedo tubes didn't play a role in this unfortunately as the missile combatscript is pretty lame. It doesn't matter in which direction the turrets point, that's just cosmetics as they can always launch missiles.

          As a side effect this reduces player-effectiveness if he manually launches a barrage as the output is halfed. But there are still two ships that can launch from 8 tubes in one turret: Skirnir and Aquilo, so there's actually a sweetener to buy/capture those if you are into leveling sectors. Those became more expensive (they also have other bonuses).

      9. TL:
        • More hullpoints (was at M7 level, now between M7 and M1)
        • Larger lasergenerators so that they can finally use their weapons to defend themself. M3 level generator just doesn't cut it.
        • Shields changed to Huge shields (500MJ)
        • The less cargocapacity the more speed, lower price and more dockingslots
        • Mobile Pirate base was made space worthy and will be for sale on a certain new SY

      10. Other:
        • Cargocapacity was also changed for the various classes. A "combatload" for each class was calculated beforehand to make sure the ship has enough space for all it's equipment+ an array of extraweapons and jump energy, as the cargo required for lasers and shields also changed partially. The cargocapacity was always set above this combatload.
        • Decreased notoriety required to buy basic TS version to 333 (rank 4), same rank as required for a M4. Was 1000 (rank 5) which was equal to M3 requirement. Improved TS versions still rank 5. This was done to not coerce peacefull players to do combatmissions in order to gain the required reputation in reasonable time. This was requested in the tester thread.


      Missiles:
      • Rebalanced all missiles - A M3 missiles is meant to be used against M3. Thus it will have appropriate damage and it has the speed to catch the target. This applies for all the normal missiles. M7M and M8 Missiles denerfed, M7M missiles are very long range (~60km) but do less damage per credit then the bomber missiles. Torpedoes don't retarget anymore, if you shoot hundreds of missiles at a target they are gone and won't do any damage to anyone else.
      • Prices adjusted, normal missiles became cheaper and a M4 missile will always be cheaper then a M3 missile.
      • M7M can't load M8 missiles anymore
      • as a side effect of lowered hull damage on laser they are more then ever a great "finish off quickly" assett once the shields are gone, as their hull damage is the same as their shielddamage. E.g. M4 Missile kills a normal shieldless M3 most of the time, M3 Missile inflicts heavy damage (~80%) on M6, etc. Not new but the advantage to lasers is bigger.
      • Missile Names are spoken again. Missiles without available Names are spoken "Missile". M8 Missiles are "Heavy Missile", M7M Missiles are also spoken - "Heavy Torpedo" and "Barrage Missile".



      This list (ships in particular) is not complete as it's still in progress, only the finished stuff is listed here. There will also be an official spreadsheet with all the shipstats on release.

      Last edited by K.J.; 18-09-2012 at 02:18 PM.


    8. #198
      TXU Full Member Crellion22's Avatar
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      Thank you guys it all sounds very very exciting and in my uninformed mind it also makes sense.


    9. #199
      Elder Administrator Aragon Speed's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by K.J. View Post
      whoops the formating didn't go to well i guess ^^
      Yeah. No idea why - probably internet explorer related.

      Dag-nabbit! Now KJ will swipe all my thanks/likes...

      However as he is the one working on the rebalance, that is justice imo.

      Last edited by Aragon Speed; 18-09-2012 at 01:29 PM.

    10. #200
      TXU Jr. Member Xydonus's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by K.J. View Post
      I also added some info, because this list was originally for our team and the testers, so some interesting changes where already included a while ago and where not listed.
      Going to ask a question that I might get slapped for - If you guys had this list originally awhile ago, and it is (was) at that time 90% complete in terms of re-balance, how far along is it now? Is there still much work to be done?


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