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    Thread: Help with hardware problems

    1. #1
      TXU Jr. Member sajjukar's Avatar
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      Default Help with hardware problems

      I really hope i am not insulting anyone with this post but as for late this had become a major problem to me and could not find a fix no matter how much and deep i looked.
      My system has become unstable as of late and it behaves like this:
      -random restarts usualy when playing something
      -random frezez (i can hear the HDD powering down and the back up and it usualy recovers but it can also lead to a complete freze and a restart is requierd)
      -i can prevent restarts i i change my pcu clock frequency to lower than 200 and multiplyer lower than 11.5 (now it runs at 200 x 10 i hope it wont reebot)
      MY configuration:
      -Asus a7n8x-x mobo
      -Athlon xp 3200+ (Barton)
      -Nanya pc3200 1 gb SDRAM memory
      -Fx 5200 video card

      Please dont laugh at it sine it started beheving like this only lateley....well it is for the last 3 years.First i thought it was PSU problem and changed like 4 of those but now after i done some serious reading i found out 2 things....it is posible that the temp probe is busted and tells the bios to shut the pc down (the core temp is as much as 50 celsius and this rig was used in the summer to temps as high as 80) and the other thing is ..... well i dont know.

      It worked ok in the past...if i do a complete reinstall of windows it will work for a week or so and then start behaving again but the thing is its not OS related since when i power the PCU at 200 freq and multiplyer to 11.0 x rezulting it full standard speed of 3200....it will not enter windows i mean it will restart in a loop...cant even see the win logo...it will run only if i set lower clock.


      Again i am sorry if i am offending anyone with this post but reading some of your posts i found out that you people know much more than you show and i really hope you could come with a resolve to my issue if not then simply remove the post.I have everest ultimate edittion so any info you need just ask and i will post a screenie.

      EDIT: i managed to post this message with 200 x 10x with no restart...so far so good it seems to be stable...now lets try to launch the game and see what happens


    2. #2
      Moderator Support King of the World's Avatar
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      The only insult is the thread title. If you need help write in the thread title what do you need, like "Are my pc specs enough to play the game?" and not only "Help" - I need somebody, help. Every forum has its rules and every member of it have to follow them without any exceptions.

      Now back to topic.

      As I see your system specs are from which year? The Athlon 3200+ how many GHz has it? The RAM is not enough. X3 use everything of it. The game needs much of RAM 2GB minimum. And the graphics lookslike antique. Do you play the game on a notebook? How old is it?


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      TXU Jr. Member shameless creature's Avatar
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      I think the problem is more that the computer used to work as it should before (with the appropriate performance), and it no longer does for some reason.

      I don't understand the 3 year part in the OP's post. You wrote that your PC only recently started to misbehave, so what's up with these 3 years? Is that how long ago you bought the PC?
      Anyway, a faulty temperature probe sounds like a reasonable explanation. I assume that the CPU fan is actually working, and the heatsink is clean (not dusty)?

      Another possible reason one could think of is CPU voltage. If the mainboard delivers a lower voltage than specified for some reason, this would reduce the achievable core clock at which the system becomes unstable.


    4. #4
      Spammy the (spacefl)Eye in the sky... stemardue's Avatar
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      No offenses, but really, try to post in the appropriate forums and with significant titles.

      As shameless_creature said, a busted temp probe can cause the problems you are experiencing, if the cooling fans refer to the probe and that is out, it's probable that the fans are working at low velocity so the cpu temp goes up and the termal protection of the mobo kicks in and causes the reboot (or the freezings). It could be either cpu temp or even the graphic card gpu temps... Graphic cards as well tend to get quite hot (and have not so good cooling fans).

      About OC settings, you should not only play with FSB speed and multiplier, but also be sure that the RAM speed can cope with the changed CPU clock. A CPU may be stable with a 25-30 % OC over stock values (or even more for some models) but also RAM banks, front side bus and chipset bridges must be able to 'follow' the higher speed. Being an asus board, i think you should be in a 'safe' environment, in any case 'shiz can happen' and maybe your current setup has become unstable.

      You should go to BIOS setup and see if there is (there should be) an option to reset BIOS values to factory setup, deleting all the overclocking and other changes you made. Try resetting the BIOS that way, then go here http://www.cpuid.com/softwares.html and get CPU Z and HWMONITOR (both are free). Set them up and see if you can spot some problem (like strange values for fans speeds, temperatures and so on).

      In most cases the difference between a CPU at 2.8Ghz and one at 3.2Ghz is not appreciable in terms of game performances, but that same difference, if not monitored and controlled, can easily fry your PC. Better stay on stock values, unless you really know what you are doing.

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      Moderator Support Loriel's Avatar
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      Whilst it seems likely that some combination of broken temperature probe/overclocking/overheating is causing your problems, it's probably also worth checking the RAM, if you haven't already done so - I've seen weird errors from faulty RAM.

      I mostly use Linux, where RAM checkers are readily available - I assume something similar is available for Windows (probably part of the Everest package, if I remember it correctly).

      Loriel


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      TXU's resident chatbox text fiend....... Tritous's Avatar
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      Some of this has already been said, I tried to send this this morning but this thread seems to crash my explorer...At least I can still share my experience on this

      Rule 1: don't dabble with clocking. Sometimes a lower frequency can also cause instability too, I'd be inclined to recommend you reset your bios to factory settings. However it's probably not going to solve it alone

      I can think of 2 likely causes: Temp or hardware fault.

      It has all the symptoms of an overheat problem. If you've had it for a while the heatsinks do jam up if you don't clean them out from time to time, the fans do lose power and age, and generally you get the need for a cooling overhaul. Regarding cooling, my recommendations are: replace the PSU heatsink and make sure you have a good front inlet fan

      for the PSU heatsink I personally advocate the Arctic cooling freezer pro 2. Very cheap, very light (I'm scared of these 2kg mobo bending things), and shockingly effective. it's only downside is that as a blade stack instead of a radial heatsink it doesn't distribute as much air to the surrounding chips. regardless of if this is the cause, a cheap heatsink replacement is usually a good idea after 2-3 years, and you can

      For an inlet fan; look for a fan not with a high flow, but with a high static pressure. Not as quiet, but it gives you a good pressure gradient and in the end is substantially more effective in intake. Outlet fans it matters more for flow rate. There are a couple of fans on the market now with as high as 1.85 bar static pressure and they are specialist inlet fans.

      Hardware faults
      This behaviour i also possible from a faulty and failing hard drive, a faulty ram, or hardware faults of the graphics card or CPU. There is a set of utilities called "the ultimate universal boot cd" you can get for free. get hold of them, make yourself a boot cd or boot usb (very useful), and use one of the utilities on there to check the stability of your RAM and to do low level hard disc scans. a CPU or GPU problem is much harder to prove unless you have spares

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    7. #7
      TXU Jr. Member sajjukar's Avatar
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      Regarding any further posts....the computer USED to be compatible with the game...it has a few twiks that allows it to run x3tc effectively...altho not terran sectors...the main problem is the IT wont boot windows unless i set the cpu frequency lower than 200 altho if i set it higher than 133 it wont be stable for long...this problem is for 2 years and it is not constant.I mean when i went to my father to replace the pcu he installed windows on it and it worked at 200 fq and 11x multiplyer like a charm...when i brought it back home it would not want to be stable at that setup and now it wont boot unless (above).One more thing...probably important and i forgot to say it...the power cupling from the psu to the mobo overheats badly something...tho the core temp of the mobo/gpu/pcu dosent rise above 48 celsius...again this is not constant.

      Edit: The specs are made around the Cpu and i know the a7n8x-x is memory picky so the memory is specificaly designed for the mobo and as for overcloking well the 200x 11 = 3200+ is the standard clock that a barton 3200+ works on to be onest it isnt overcloked...its just its normal manufacturing clock,

      I have heard somewhere else about the busted temp probe...how can i bypass it because colling isnt a problem...it barely registers 50 celsius.No dust since i clean it ones a month with a brush and the termal paste is from september (i started using this system after my laptop failed and thats from december)

      I would not want to flash the bios...that kind of operation is...well i wont want to return to paper and pen because of my power company

      Last edited by sajjukar; 15-02-2013 at 12:58 AM.

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      TXU's resident chatbox text fiend....... Tritous's Avatar
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      resetting factory settings doesn't mean flashing the bios, although you should consider checking if there are any bios updates for your mobo. It's rare these days to have problems with it and it is easier than ever, but I admit I also don't quite feel comfortable doing it.

      The age of the thermal paste isn't what is in question (and rarely matters if it has been done well), but fans do die and heatsinks do clog up deep down in places you cannot reach. It worries me though that you have a hot power connector to the mobo: that is NOT a location that should be hot. You also should never have problems with your windows being unstable on factory settings so something is clearly wrong which is not related to games.

      set your bios to restore factory defaults, see how it goes. get the ultimate boot cd set and do the deep memory checks, and there are other utiliities there which can help diagnose, but chances are if the bios reset doesnt fix it...we are talking about needing parts. All you can do from this point is try to make sur eyou get the right parts to save money.

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    9. #9
      TXU Jr. Member sajjukar's Avatar
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      I reset my BIOS via soft way (load optimized settings) and hard way (jumper) either way the settings are exact and CPU wont boot since it will be set at 100x11.5 the minimun posible setting (BIOS will tell clock is not correct)...the cpu fan is quite old but still turning at 2500-3000 rpm and onestly its more than enaugh.

      Used CPUID (2 out of 3 times my computer frezzed and 1 time it told me unusefull data and the otherone says the same temperature no matter what).Everest has this 2 implemented and my temp is like this ( i used the EVEREST "stress everithing until it dies" program and it was stable...passed 10 mins of maximum load to everithing) so the temps where like this :
      -cpu 48
      -mobo27
      -gpu 50
      -hdd 47
      -this values where from 10 minutes of full load and full it means 100% cpu/memory ussadge...as you can see the temps are very good even for a 4 year old fan (well 2 years because i replaced the stock one)

      For some reason .... 4 hours ago i told myself "what the hell" and set it at 200 fsb and 10x multyplyer....IT IS STABLE i mean not a single reboot ... even the games are working.AMD cpu's expecialy barton family are made to temper with...theyr natural overclokers tho i didnt overcloked it ever since 5% or 10% improved performance isnt that much.

      The power cupling on my old psu was fried and i mean it turned brown but the hardware temp was ok i really wonder if the mobo conectors lost theyr property to transmit exectricity and theyr leaking heat....the psu is new and the wierd fact is that with 3 psu's and 2 video cards it had the exact same problem.THe memory if ok and the cpu also...that leaves the mobo beiing faulty since like you said...it reads erronous temps and rebbots the cpu (quite frequent with a7n8x-x).

      FInal facts:
      -if the memory was damaged it wont work at all no matter what frequency il register...200/166/133 or multiplyer
      -cpu also...a damaged cpu wont work or be less or more stable depending in with mood its in...now it works at 200 fsb for over 4 hours and 2 stress tests.
      -hdd...not an issue because when it missbehaved it wont load windows....i would even get reboots in bios when atempting to lower the clock
      -gpu...absolutly not because 2 extremly different vido cards do not behave identical - not posible
      -psu brand new tho 400w is a bit low but my system dosent need much power...as you said its pretty antique
      -this leaves the mobo but its hard to test it...

      Edit:Please correct me if i am right...i am just thinking outloud.Again this problems are not constant...sometimes it works some times it dosent.Sometimes the coupling get heat up sometimes are cold as a piece of glass in the winter.

      -I didnt changed voltage or wattage ever since i dont oc
      -I dont want to buy parts blindly...i just want to know its problem and attempt to fix it...

      Last edited by sajjukar; 15-02-2013 at 08:09 AM.

    10. #10
      TXU Full Member zazie's Avatar
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      Look, your rig is old (much older than 3 years), the components were delivered about 10 years ago (e.g. Barton 3200+). It is normal that such a PC shows some unattended behavior: it has reached the borders of EOL. But before it dies you could try to change the voltage-settings for your CPU. Older CPUs have a tendency to need a little bit more power and boards have a tendency to deliver slightly less power with age. So go into advanced bios settings and check, what the settings for your CPU-voltage are. Double-check your settings (for the special 3200+/a7n8x-combo) with Google. If your settings are 'common', change the CPU-voltage to the next higher value. Be aware: we are talking here about a step of 0,00x V! And please, do not play around with those settings, you might instakill your CPU.

      If the CPU/board accept the new setting, test it while playing. Start again with the next higher setting, if neccessary. DO NOT go further! If you will not see a better result, more power to the CPU does not help.


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